Reader Grego posted a comment with a link to Sheldon Brown's article on squeezing cogs onto freehubs technically too narrow for them. Rather than leave this in the comments I wanted to put it on its own post.
When I wrote the post I was going to say that I was sure greater minds than mine had thought of the idea years ago, but somehow in the press of time I forgot to put it in. Suntour launched the narrow chain movement in the 1970s with Ultra 6 freewheels that put six speeds on bikes that formerly had only five. If anything my post showed how slowly my mental wheels grind, not how rapidly.
I tend to make do with whatever I have. Especially when it comes to complicated devices like brifters and temperamental items like skinny chains I really try to resist the expense and complexity, weighing the advantages against the disadvantages for the self-supported cyclist. So it took me a long time to want that extra cog on the old seven-speed.
Laboring in a cycling backwater, and not addicted to reading about it on the Internet or in books, I receive my information as it drifts in. Presented with a customer problem I will do intense research. Then I go home and think about something else. So in a way, the fact that I independently developed the 8 of 9 concept validates the research of the true pioneers.
Sheldon also thought brifters were nifty. His article tells how to get those infernal mechanisms to work with the improvised cassettes, which is work you can skip if you declare your independence and shift in friction. He also prescribed skinny chains, where I'm running my 8-speed, reserving the option to go to nine if I notice any problems with chain width that did not appear on my test ride.
Showing posts with label Chain of the Month Club. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Chain of the Month Club. Show all posts
Saturday, July 26, 2014
Friday, July 25, 2014
8 of 9 on 7
You can easily get caught up in the bike industry's definitions of things and start arguing in their terms, forgetting to analyze problems at their most basic level. Nowhere does this seem to exert more control than in drive trains.
I spend a lot of time getting people's shifting to work. I spend time getting other things to work, too, but shifting occupies a lot of brain space, working out compatibility issues and remembering what can and can't be fixed at all.
Aside from the fixed-gears, my other bikes have seven or eight speeds. My faithful old road bike had seven because I had never re-spaced the frame to 130 mm and I had a wheel with a seven-speed hub without too many miles on it. But commuting to work I discovered two things: First, I wanted a slightly lower low gear. The old 26-tooth cog, even with a 34 ring up front, was good enough for the relatively easy commuting route, but gave me no reserve for longer, nastier climbs. Second, I liked the 50-26 (The Ned), but I feel guilty using it.
I wondered if I could build an eight-speed cassette from nine-speed cogs and spacers that would then fit on a seven-speed freehub.
Yes I can.
When the Miche cogs and spacers came today I test-stacked them on a seven-speed hub from the box of salvage in the basement. Perfect! But would it work with my eight-speed chain? Not a big deal. Nine speed chains are a little more expensive, but still cheaper and more durable than 10- and 11-speed chains. I'd done some experiments on particularly troublesome drive trains that indicated you could run eight on nine and nine on ten in a pinch. And that was on indexed brifter systems. Shifting in friction opens up a lot of other options. If I didn't mind joining the Chain-of-the-Month Club I could make 11 on eight. Ten, anyway, but that's not exotic.
The road test disclosed no problems. I can shift the whole range from both chain rings. I've got my former Ned as a legitimate choice. The new Ned works, too. The chain was long enough.
Of course the disclaimers say you should never mix brands and types of cogs, bla bla bla. If you needed precise indexing performance that would be true...ish. I've mixed cogs for special needs indexing customers as well as friction shifting privateers. It's dicier when indexing is at stake, and downright impossible for the obsessive shifting-geek who thinks a Wippermann chain is "too noisy and slow." Someone that addicted will sell an organ and a couple of kids to have a directional Dura Ace chain when he needs it. Face REALITY, dude! You need help!
Shifting a crowded cluster in friction takes a light touch. Actually, this latest Frankencassette is not as touchy as I though it might be. The Campy Veloce derailleur was already very quick compared to the agglomeration on my Cross Check. Closing up the spacing and adding a cog has not made it unmanageable.
I spend a lot of time getting people's shifting to work. I spend time getting other things to work, too, but shifting occupies a lot of brain space, working out compatibility issues and remembering what can and can't be fixed at all.
Aside from the fixed-gears, my other bikes have seven or eight speeds. My faithful old road bike had seven because I had never re-spaced the frame to 130 mm and I had a wheel with a seven-speed hub without too many miles on it. But commuting to work I discovered two things: First, I wanted a slightly lower low gear. The old 26-tooth cog, even with a 34 ring up front, was good enough for the relatively easy commuting route, but gave me no reserve for longer, nastier climbs. Second, I liked the 50-26 (The Ned), but I feel guilty using it.
I wondered if I could build an eight-speed cassette from nine-speed cogs and spacers that would then fit on a seven-speed freehub.
Yes I can.
The road test disclosed no problems. I can shift the whole range from both chain rings. I've got my former Ned as a legitimate choice. The new Ned works, too. The chain was long enough.
Of course the disclaimers say you should never mix brands and types of cogs, bla bla bla. If you needed precise indexing performance that would be true...ish. I've mixed cogs for special needs indexing customers as well as friction shifting privateers. It's dicier when indexing is at stake, and downright impossible for the obsessive shifting-geek who thinks a Wippermann chain is "too noisy and slow." Someone that addicted will sell an organ and a couple of kids to have a directional Dura Ace chain when he needs it. Face REALITY, dude! You need help!
Shifting a crowded cluster in friction takes a light touch. Actually, this latest Frankencassette is not as touchy as I though it might be. The Campy Veloce derailleur was already very quick compared to the agglomeration on my Cross Check. Closing up the spacing and adding a cog has not made it unmanageable.
Monday, March 31, 2014
Job security or death knell?
The Internet brings me word of the proliferation of 11-speed drive trains and hydraulic disc brakes for road bikes among the many technological bounties showering from the broken sewer pipe of the bicycle industry and its chief driver of costs and complications, Shimano.
As if ten-speed chains did not wear out fast enough. While I chuckle on my own behalf as I ride my 8-speed steed (24, actually, with its hideously outmoded triple crank), I also tear my hair as I consider that most of my time is spent helping customers who have no intention of replacing their old bikes keep them going.
It's like working in rehab. The poor riders come in addicted to their conveniently-located shifting. It used to be state-of-the-art. Now it's relegated to the cheap models. The bike industry wants these dupes to buy newer bikes with more speeds. But they can't afford the stronger drugs you're peddling. And they don't need them.
If you get tagged by some irritable idiot in a pickup truck, does it matter whether your bike had 11 cogs or eight in the rear? Does it matter whether you had electronic shifting and hydraulic disc brakes or barcons and old cantilevers? Will the new bikes ride any better over potholed road edges than the old ones did?
Component manufacturers shove their innovations down through the price points because they need a lot of suckers to buy in to finance the few people who really benefit even slightly from the capabilities of the new machinery. I guarantee that racers will race on whatever they can get. THEY don't drive the innovation unless you can tell them one of two things: it's an advantage other competitors won't be able to get or it's what everyone else has, so they need it to start from an equal footing. But if everyone has it, everyone has it. That was true when it was toeclips and downtube shifting on steel framed bikes and it's true now with exotic frame materials and far more expensive and temperamental drive trains. No one has the technological edge for long. Meanwhile, the innovations warp values throughout the industry and cycling in general.
Now we need another shelf facing in the parts department for 11-speed chains. We have to stock 11, 10, 9, and 8-7-6-5, as well as a few models of 1/2"X1/8" and a 3/16" for good measure. The poor schmucks who want a nice bike and get stuck buying an 11-speed swell the ranks of the Chain of the Month Club even if they've never heard of it. And most people haven't.
"Got this great new bike! Of course my genitals still get numb on a long ride, I still breathe hard and huck up a lung on steep climbs and angry motorists still try to kill me, but thank heaven I have that one more cog!"
Riders may love cycling and still not want to shell out for a new bike very three years. Even among racers -- a small percentage of the cycling population -- there are many who may lust for the newer stuff but simply can't afford it. They'll get the best they can and thrash it and themselves to death.
Far more numerous than the real racers are the citizen riders with their myriad motivations, who buy the best bike they can, with every intention of using it for many years. The bike industry betrays them with its constant debatable "improvements."
As far as I can see the bike industry divides the customer base into two broad categories: the exploited and the neglected. At this they're no worse than many other industries, but when will that stop being the basis of acceptability?
Where's the big noise about improving riding conditions on every road in the country? Where's the huge investment in public image and education that would really increase consumer demand? Does the bike industry believe that will take care of itself or do they actually believe it's not worth the investment? They'll just keep throwing ideas at different rider groups and aim for the center of the biggest flocks until there are no more. As a rider I don't feel supported by them. As a professional mechanic I don't feel supported by them. As a small retailer I emphatically don't feel supported by them.
As if ten-speed chains did not wear out fast enough. While I chuckle on my own behalf as I ride my 8-speed steed (24, actually, with its hideously outmoded triple crank), I also tear my hair as I consider that most of my time is spent helping customers who have no intention of replacing their old bikes keep them going.
It's like working in rehab. The poor riders come in addicted to their conveniently-located shifting. It used to be state-of-the-art. Now it's relegated to the cheap models. The bike industry wants these dupes to buy newer bikes with more speeds. But they can't afford the stronger drugs you're peddling. And they don't need them.
If you get tagged by some irritable idiot in a pickup truck, does it matter whether your bike had 11 cogs or eight in the rear? Does it matter whether you had electronic shifting and hydraulic disc brakes or barcons and old cantilevers? Will the new bikes ride any better over potholed road edges than the old ones did?
Component manufacturers shove their innovations down through the price points because they need a lot of suckers to buy in to finance the few people who really benefit even slightly from the capabilities of the new machinery. I guarantee that racers will race on whatever they can get. THEY don't drive the innovation unless you can tell them one of two things: it's an advantage other competitors won't be able to get or it's what everyone else has, so they need it to start from an equal footing. But if everyone has it, everyone has it. That was true when it was toeclips and downtube shifting on steel framed bikes and it's true now with exotic frame materials and far more expensive and temperamental drive trains. No one has the technological edge for long. Meanwhile, the innovations warp values throughout the industry and cycling in general.
Now we need another shelf facing in the parts department for 11-speed chains. We have to stock 11, 10, 9, and 8-7-6-5, as well as a few models of 1/2"X1/8" and a 3/16" for good measure. The poor schmucks who want a nice bike and get stuck buying an 11-speed swell the ranks of the Chain of the Month Club even if they've never heard of it. And most people haven't.
"Got this great new bike! Of course my genitals still get numb on a long ride, I still breathe hard and huck up a lung on steep climbs and angry motorists still try to kill me, but thank heaven I have that one more cog!"
Riders may love cycling and still not want to shell out for a new bike very three years. Even among racers -- a small percentage of the cycling population -- there are many who may lust for the newer stuff but simply can't afford it. They'll get the best they can and thrash it and themselves to death.
Far more numerous than the real racers are the citizen riders with their myriad motivations, who buy the best bike they can, with every intention of using it for many years. The bike industry betrays them with its constant debatable "improvements."
As far as I can see the bike industry divides the customer base into two broad categories: the exploited and the neglected. At this they're no worse than many other industries, but when will that stop being the basis of acceptability?
Where's the big noise about improving riding conditions on every road in the country? Where's the huge investment in public image and education that would really increase consumer demand? Does the bike industry believe that will take care of itself or do they actually believe it's not worth the investment? They'll just keep throwing ideas at different rider groups and aim for the center of the biggest flocks until there are no more. As a rider I don't feel supported by them. As a professional mechanic I don't feel supported by them. As a small retailer I emphatically don't feel supported by them.
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